On going feud...

It has been (As some of you know) for a long time.My DH has always drank alcohol on a daily basis.and I have always been messy.Before he has NEVER got on my back about it,but recebtly (in the new house) he is expressing a strong desire to keep it nice,get a maid (whcih I have come around to the idea of,althoguh they only vaccum and polish/clean toilets ,our problem is mess and clutter more that that...anyway,if it makes him happy) UI have been following flylady.net,reading the book,writing myself out routines to try and stay clean/tidy organised and with meals on the table and the laundry done.I am managing to cook meals with Teo's new diet.Shop and keep us in clean clothes (mostly) the house is not disgusting but sometimes there are a few dishes in the sink.It's 90% better than it was at the old house.Despite the boxes,but we're gonna sort them next weekend.I am proud of myself.Hubby has always said to me ;dont define who you are by how well you clean,it's just not yur thing,we'll get a maid ,stop taking it so persnally' I have tried to tell him in return 'I want to do it,I want to take care of my family and on a personal level it's my challenge to overcome." The one thing in this f;ylady's book is 'take baby step's dont over do it or you'll crash and burn.Hubby will not read the book or listen and therefore cannot understand,He also think thats getting a maid will solve our mess,I told him a weekly or bi-weekly maid will NOT stop messy clothes building up (they wont touch laundry or dishes) and they wll not be here to pick up after our every dropped plate/cup/shoe/sock/book.For that you need a live in housekeeper,which we can a) not afford and b) do not have anywhere to put one.Sigh...he just doesnt get it.I have come around to this idea,but he has gone from 'it's not your fault.just let it go,we'll get a maid.' To last night. "Just fucking do it,you suck (its not your fault but you suck) '

This was triggered by a conversation about me and his drinking,where we have moved,we have some really cool neighbours all around us.They like to hang out,grill out and drink/go to bars,play cards (like last night) and drink.all days of the week.None of our immediate neghbours have wives or kids I might add.Anyway,Like I said,hubby has always drank,everynight he drink about 7pints of beer.I tell him how bad it is for his liver,this is laughable because he wont' take asprin coz it's 'bad for his liver' and when I tell him this,he sais 'where have you read this?like abou the drink being bad.He has a history of drinking WAY too much,he hides it from his mum n gma,it makes him fall asleep on the couch (he hasnt come to bed with me to sleep for months (unles its to have sex) I end up going down about 2am and waking his snoring ass up off the couch with the TV still on.He is fine for the first 5-6 beers,but then he changes,if not into a nasty agressive (not physically but verbally) person to a fool.He will say stupid things that don't make sense.He will argue with me over stuff that I KNOW for a fact is rigt but in his states (which he dnies being in at all) he cant see it.When he goes out,EVERYTIME he goes out,he will drink until he passes out asleep somewhere or until all the alcohol is gone.He sais 'what I didn't cheat on you did I" when I yell at him,yet there are still two fist holes in our downstairs bathroom from that night.At our old house,he kicked the staircase hanfdrail ansd I had to buy bits to replace it and get a neighbour to help me it was broken so bad.He always sais 'I'l fix it" but never does,

About 2 monhs ago,I was still at the old house and he was here in his hotel.He said he was going to bed and he would call me to say gdnight,long story short,he went accorss the street to a bar (his room was non smoking) and it was cold,so he went in,course you cant go in withoutb having a drink,4 hours later,frantic phone calls from me to his cell/hotel rooom phone,none of which were answered,the sheepish night manager informs me that he saw chuck come in about 'an hour ago' and go to bed.He didnt' hear his cell or call me back until 6am when he woke up all hungover and guilty.I was worried out of my mind for all thos hoursnot knowing weather to call the cops n have his room checked in case he had fallen.When the bankstatment showde up,he had spent about $160 at the bar,buying shots for the band and himself.He didnt remember walking to his room.

I was so angrymbut he felt so bad,I didn't keep on,he then (by himself) said that he thinks he is a finctioning alcoholic and that he needs help.I said 'ok' and that I would support him in anyway that I could.He told me no more drinking at all now,all or nothing,which quickly changed to 'no more drinking in the week' which by the next week,was out the window.I knew there would be slip ups but really thought,since he admitted a problem we were realy getting somewhere.Not so,he continues to drink and last weekend went out with the new neighbours (I am going to copy and paste the story from another post cos it's long) This tells the story of last weekend and of friday night.It got worse again last night which I will write about in red.

OUr neighbours invited him out the first weekend we were here.He promised me (without me prompting) that he would be back at 8:30pm (to watch the basket ball game) and THEN,he SWORE up and downhe would not get 'ucked up" I told him to not make me a promise he couldnt keep.In repsonse to that he swore to me again '8:30'.So I said "OK well,have fun,b careful. Of course *:30 rolls around and no chucks.He shows ip at 9:30 after not answering my calls.COMPLETELY bladdered,unable to walk unassisted,me unable to hold back laid into homeabout it,which is of course completely useless at that point.It just makes him angry,whereupon he goes into that bathroom and punches 2 holesd in the wall.Ugh...I give up.I dont know what to say.Obvious.y I am angry and feel the need to tell him.So in the morning I try again.It is met by him telling me "It was one fucking hour....60 minutes" and further more implying that me making him prmise to 'not get fucked up' is ludicrous.He eventually reluctantly admits he was wrong and is sorry ,but cant resist adding how mean I am for pointing out the stupid things he did and making him feel embaressed.I told ihim it wasnt ME who made him embaressed,that heshould not have had 12-16 shots + all the beers he drank before.Dont get me wrong ,they ALL drank that much.But still...

Last night,we got into a stupid argument abut where the storm was coming from,it got so ridiculous that I had to draw a compas to prove my point,in the mean time he was telling me how wrong I was and how fucked upmy physics were.We ended up laughing and joking.But as I decided to go to bed at 11pm,and say goodnight.I got on the chair and a half to snuggle with him real quick and say goodnight.He started rubbing my butt,I know what this means in 'chuck; and I was quick to remind him I have been cramping (actually for days,but more about that in a minute) and was not in the mood.He then said 'so we're just like a normal couple now' I then had to couner that,of course,when we dont have sex for 2-3 days,it means our sex life is over and we're 'a married couple' even after a weekend of grat kinky sex.It's just what he does.Makes me feel gulty when I shouldnt have t.Anyway,long story short,he ended up calling me a motherfucker twice and I went to bed.He has slet on the couch every night this week,either because we have not been speaking,or because he has passed out,he will tell you from tiredness,I will tell you from beer.He never does ANYTHING with us as a family,like eat breakfast if I make pancakes,or come to the park,last night was the first time he played with Teo in forever.when I try and say some of these things he will say 'whyd you marry me' I guess I just thought you'd want to help a bit more and be a bit more involed that just 'earning the money'. Anyway,I digress..

Last night,the guys outside invited him to play cards 4 doors down.He asked me if it was cool,I was still pissed about the drinking thing and sick of pretending I was cool with it.I just came out and said 'You know what I am not cool with it,you have let me down again and again,broken promises and parts of the house,you are someone else when you drink ,it's bad for you health and it affect you in SO many ways (Which I have listed off time and time again,but he plays dumb like he doesnt know or like I havent ever told him) .I said 'if you go over to the house and get drunk,which you will ,it's a card game,I don't like it.' He went off about my lack of cleaning,I told him to stop making it about me.Anyway,He eventually said 'whar do you want?' I said I want you to stop,or get help to stop.He then 'sturck a deal' with me,we each have a week,me to get and keep the house spotless,(which makes me sad and nervous because I am worried that I will fail under the extra pressure) and him to quit drinking (in the week only) or we both have a sepearation.I said that was stupid and settig each other up to fail.He calls me judgemental and nagging,I tell him he has a problem and it's affecting US as a fmaily and has been for a long while,but I see NO improvement,if anything he's drinking more.He then tries to blame our last week fighting (everyday pretty much) on my impending period.I said,'fine think that,I guarentee you on monday (if has showed by then) that I will feel exactly the same as I do now,sick of it.'He went and took a bath,I thought he was gonna stay in,but no,he got dressed and went out.I went to bed stewing with a migraine.I am so sick of this girls,I just don't know what to do or say anymore.I don't want to put up with it,worse,appologise for 'being mean and making fun of the stupid things he does when he's trashed and embaress him' and being made to feel guilty.

input please?I am willing to try and change,(he sais I am not but i am slowly) the cleaing and house thing,but he is not willing or cant budge on the drinking thing,worse thinks its my issue,my problem,and need to stop being so irrational.

PLease advise

Oh hun, what alcohol does to a person especially one that doesn't believe they have a problem and also their family is also 100% affected by their actions. If DF drank alcohol on a regular basis (he only drink on special occassions or to socialize which is very rare, haha) I would of never been with him for 9 years, but that's because my mom is an alcoholic, so I will not tolerate it. I honestly don't have much to say since you can't change him Oh I had no idea you were in this situation, such a waste of money every night...when your family is much more important. I hope someone can come up with a good reply hun!!!

Thanks,it means a lot just that you replied at all.I feel a bit better just having written out.The main thing is,he makes me feel like it's all my problem,I am overreacting and I need to let it go/back off,I have to admit,it's not awful everynight,like when he has his usual weekly amount,it usually doesn't get nasty.It's mostly on the weekends or if he EVER gets invited out,he doesnt know when to stop and has to be helped home and then he can't walk and gets realy mean/nasty. he called me mean for telling him that he made an ass out of himself. I just don't know what to do,I end up appolgising for when I yell at him for making me worry,I get so worried that I get the runs sometimes (sorry ) but I don't like it,My mother was also an alcohoic,although not to the extent yours was and she has quit now,but people getting really drunk still makes me nervous.I drink sometimes,but it's rare and when I do it's even rarer that I get drunk and do stupid things,especially since I have had kids.When I point these things out to him,he sais I am condescending and 'on my high horse'.I just dont know how else to say it.Should I just let it go and not confront him? Should I pretend it doesnt happen even though it worries me and makes me unhappy? He puts up with my crap as well and doest nag me,so shuld I just let his go? Should I put my foot down and insist he get help?I have nothing to threten him with,no levarage.He knows I can't very lwell leave the country at the moment without ending the whole thing and even if I wanted to,I wouldnt be able to get the baby out without a fight,plus I dont WANT that.I want my husband who is lovely in most other areas of life.He works hard and is sweet to me.He has so many good things about him and we're always laughing together when this shit isnt going on.However,this is touching most areas of our lives and affectting the,.I cna list of a million reasons why I dont like him drinking.I feel he is being very deffensive and trying to turn it all around and make it about me and MY faults when we talk,when I say this,he says that he is not.He is so strong with his arguments, that he makes me doubt mine.I just not sure how much of this is me being over sensitive and not liking it and making a big deal,or how much of this is rational,fair and stuff that I as a person who he loves and respect should not have to put up with.I know most people get drunk occasionaly,I know lots of people have a few beers a week.I know a few,but not 7pints a night and then more on the weekend and I certainly think they dont get into such states where they cant walk,break promisses,talk crap,get mean and aggresisve and fall asleep EVERYnight on the couch rather than in bed with their wife.Whatever I try to tell him,he tells me he doesnt need me to tell him how shit he is,how much he sucks at everything (not true) and tell him what a peice of shit he is(not true either) he said that I make it sound like he doesn NOTHING right.I think this is just him playing the martyr when he gets cornered.I also think that he knows that a lot of what I say is right but his ego just gets in the way of him admitting it or capitulating.He has to come to the conclusion on his own.I thought he already had with the admission oh himself being 'a functioning alcoholic' but I guess he hasnt really admitted that?

I guess if you want your relationship to work I guess you'd have to try not to get to him too much if it upsets you, or maybe talk to him once he's sobered up about how unhappy you are about the night before and if he could please not do that anymore...it's sooo hard to confront an alcoholic especially during the time they are drinking. My sister has told me not to answer my phone after 9pm on a Friday or Saturday if it's my mom, so it's best to avoid her altogether during those times. (by the way, we are now talking again...only been about 4 times in about 3 weeks time and it's going okay).

Now if you really want him to stop, you do have to put your foot down and tell him he gets help or else he may lose his family. Whichever way you want to deal with it, it's completely up to you, but if I find out he's threatened you or hurt you, I will arrange a gang of PP members to come and kick his ass!!!

I have met lots of people who can go on and have a life with drinking alcohol every night but to a minimum...so I know it's possible, but when it comes to drunk sessions quite frequently, of course there is a problem there.

I hope you can decide how you want to approach this situation. (((Holi))) xxx

Thank you gutter,I honestly don't think he would ever hurt me or the kids,he is SO against that ,especially as thats what his father did to his mother and he dispises his father to this day.It goes against everything he is.But he calls me names galore.His current faves are; 'motherfucker' and bitch but have been varying LOL.It doesnt so much worry me as it does hurt my feelings.I told him I dont care how angry you get you dont call the person you love names like that.He doesnt realise he does it.Anyway,thanks again Gutter,means a lot that you responed

Hey Holi!! I'm glad he is against that stuff....just having my mom pull a knife on me brings back nasty memories, so I just want to make sure your family is alright and still the name calling in uncalled for...I do call DF names sometimes too, but that's only when I'm really mad.

No problem hun, I'm here always

It gets harder trying to advise you sweetie because I have said it all before, and without meaning to sound like a broken record you aren't going to be able to change him, the only person who can do that is himself.

All I can really do to help you is to listen to you, I know that you always feel better when you get something off your chest and you know that you and Chuck with be totally awesome again in just a matter of days but it will happen again and again until he realises or admits that he has a problem. I do agree with Gutter in that he needs to understand that if he doesn't start bucking his ideas up you are going to take drastic action, trouble is it speaking from experience you don't know what you've got (or had) until it's gone, an old saying I know but 100% true, so it's a risky card to play.

If he can't change his drinking habits completely, meaning STOP drinking, he certainly needs to change the name calling bcos sweetie that is ****ing awful it takes a lot for me to swear but I get so angry at the fact he calls you names, it is degrading and un-called for. You MUST tell him how upsetting that is for you, plus if the kids ever by chance hear him I know they are likely to be in bed when you two argue BUT as they get older there is more of a chance they will hear, they 'could' deem that as ok, they will see their Dad dis-respecting their Mum and think hey if Dad's got no respect why should we.............it really has to stop!

X X X Love you babe X X X

Holi, I read your post earlier this morning and was just shocked. I had no idea you were dealing this. (((HUGS))) And I also didn't know quite what to say right then either.

I agree wholeheartedly with Georgi's first paragraph....only Chuck can change Chuck. Many years ago I dated an alcoholic and one thing I walked away with from that relationship (thanks to Al-Anon meetings) was just what Georgi said....and that I could not control my boyfriend or his drinking, but I COULD control how I chose to react to his actions (I guess that's two things, huh?).

I don't know how you're supposed to respond to his drinking, but adding your anger to the mixture isn't going to help anything. The name-calling is completely out of line, but you can't argue or reason with an alcoholic when he's drunk. Somehow, when he's sober, he's got to understand how hurtful this is.

Sounds like you're doing a fine job on trying to be a better homemaker. Keep trying! That whole ultimatum thing he threw at you wasn't right, but DO continue to try to make progress.

Hey Holi I have thane on the boob so this may be quicker than planned.

i am really sorry he is STILL F*ckin doing this!!!!!!!!!! I don't know what you should do cuz the fact is he knows he has you by the balls. You can't work here yet, you don't have a way to make money on your own right now, and he is the one that is makin the money. that really sucks! I'm sorry to point out the obvious But, my daddy used to be an alcoholic after vietnam and my mom left with my sister and me and went to his parents house. Daddy quit drinking cold turkey and has never picked up a drink again in 30 years. he loved us too much to let us go. THANK GOD!!!

i am not suggesting you leave, cuz i KNOW you cant go to your inlaws, but what he is doing is very wrong. Emotional abuse is very difficult to overcame and THAT IS WHAT he is doing!!! It MAY just be when he is drinking....but he is still diong it holi! I don't like him treating you that way because you are too smart and too good of a person to have to deal with that crap. I hope you don't get mad at me, but honestly it sounds like he just doesn't respect you. I hope i am wrong, and PLEASE don't be mad at me, but when your significant other says shitty things like that it is lack of respect for them and their feelings. I was emotionally and physically abused for about 7 years so I know how it feels and i know its not ALL The time, of course its not or you would leave their ass!!!!! BUT THEY ARE SOOOOOO SORRY AND THEY DON"T KNOW WHY...WAH WAH WAH...you don't deserve that.

I wish i could tell you what to do...but i don't know what to do. chuck needs to know that you MEAN that you are taking his family and you ARE leaving if he doesn't straighten up. BUT, there is NOTHING you can do to change him like Georgi and GUtter said. He is who he is and without that WANT to change, it will never happen.

XXXXX to you sweetie and please email me or pm me. I will try not to text as much But i hope i haven't offended you. I just love you and want you to be happy.

Hey Holi -
I'm so sorry to hear what all you are going through. I know we've talked a little about it in the past and I'm sorry to hear that things are not improving.

The only thing you can do right now is take care of YOU, TEO and TIA-LI. If being a better homemaker is a desire of your heart - then keep working on it. Just do the best YOU can do. If you have an off day, then so be it. I read something one time that said instead of thinking about your "to do" list think about your "tah dah" list! Think about the fact that you basically packed your entire home with two very young children at home all by yourself, you've very quickly gotten your new home in order and have a plan to tackle any remaining boxes. You've found a diet that seems to be helping Teo and you are raising two healthy, beautiful children! If you ask me, you have accomplished a lot!!!! : )

I know it doesn't solve any problems but maybe it is a different way of approaching each day. I will be thinking of you and Chuck and please keep us posted!!!!!

Love you sweetie!!!!!

Thank you all so much for your responses,you had me teary eyed.I will keep this short tonight.He came back from going to the store,and after our long spell of not speaking,he bought me some chocolate (he rarely just picks things for me without asking,so I take it as a peace offering) He also,came home minus the beer so I take that he is going to atmept NOT drinking sunday through thursday,which is all well and good,I just hope he doesnt make up for it by getting trashed even more than he would have at the weekends to prove a point or punish me.(maybe that sounds weird)

I know name calling is not on,I am no angel,and have once or twice said 'F**k you!' to him,but I don't call him degrading things.I just want to let you all know that he is not some abusive asshole.I know all that I have written sounds bad and it's just my side.But please don't worry for me.We all have our faults and weaknesses.NOt defending what he does when he drinks but,he is a lovely,soulful sweet person (ordinarily) and has SO many good things about him.This is why I put up with the drinking,every now and then it overlaps and I have enough and call time out,vent on here and to him.I do want it to change and I also want me to improve.Today,I have mowed the lawn,spot cleaned the carpet and done 4 loads of lundry and put it away (my biggest problem) as well as cooking throughout the day and making Teo a chocolate cake for easter.I feel thatI have accomplished a lot I think he noticed too.We are still treading carefully around each other,I hate when it's like this.I want to be 'us' again.No tension and laughing and joking.the Ice is finally thawing I just think both of us have been 'challenged ' and had some home truths thrown at us this past week.I am STILL waiting for my period but confident that things will be fine.Thanks SO much everyone for your support.I will update here love you all (yall Ginny,not mad at you BTW )

Holi - a side note about laundry. Something I started doing is washing everything on cold water. That way I don't have to sort it. I just open the lid to the washer and start filling it up.... when I have enough for a load I wash, dry and put it away. I only wash really dirty items, reds and new dark items separately. It has helped me TONS!!!!!!!!! I do a load every other day instead of 5 loads on the weekends. Hope this helps!

Glad to hear there are some improvements at home!!!!

Well,since our big row week he has been drinking still,he managed 2 days of what he said he was gonna do.But now he has gone back to full time every night.In fact,he's added a 24 oz can to his usual 7 cans so it's even more.I don't know why.All I know is,as far as I havn't been saying anything he's been smiley and nice.I am a little resentful as where we live now and his new job he keeps getting invitations to go places/do things.most of which involve drinking to some extent.Saturday night he had a poker game with some friend a little a way.He did get a ride,but didn't come back until am,then he called me coz he couldnt open the door.I am not happy about it.But since then I dare him to say smoething about the cleaning.I am still trying to unpack a little and clean a little as wlel as cooking and watching the kids each day.I'ts taking a long time but I AM trying.Also gonna start taking more EPO in a couple of days to try and combat my violent PMS.I hope it works.Coz I am being nice now,he probably assumes (I know he thinks this) that it's all down to my period and that I don't have a problem when I am not due on,but I do ,perhaps I just don't conceal it as well.I am no sure what I can do/say.I am scared to mention it as I don't want to cause a fight,it's like I am defeated right now.

On saturday night,I didn't let it bother me.I went to bed early,didn't call him and when he got home,obvioulsy drunk and oblivous of the time,I didn't say antyhing,just let him in and went to bed.He sleeps pretty much every night on the couch,either coz he thinks he sleeps better there (has done this since the baby was born) or because he passes out there.LAst night I woke at 4am to find him on the couch fallen to the side with one leg up and sweating coz he was too covered up.I woke him and suggested he come to bed and he snapped at me that he was 'alright' so I left him.When I pressed the issue during the day about him never sleeping in the bed,he sais it's coz I take up too much of the bed/cover and we need a bigger bed.Well it's not gonna happen while we live in this house coz our bed barely fis in our room as it is.I am begginig to feel angry and resentful particularly as he's watching baskeball playoff's everynight since they started from the time he gets home till WAY after I go to bed.I sometimes manage to lure him upstairs for sex,but he usually always goes back down.I miss sleeping in the bed with my hubby and it makes me sad and lonely.I am already alone without adult (his) company everyday all day while he works from 9am till 7-8pm (he comes home for lunch but it's quick) and then once he gets home,the kids get put to bed,we chat breifly and then he's wacthin basketball or stupid first 48 (which I have grown to hate) and it makes me feel like he's avoiding me.

But at the weekend,after a good few beers,he'll tell me there' nothing better than being married to me,that I am everything,that nothing is better than me.It just makes me sad that he has to have a few drinks before he'll get all lovely dovey and by then he's usually not that attractive to me coz he acts a little dumb and foolish and well...ignorant.He repeats himself and then forgets he's told me that same thing the next day.Sorry about this.I just had to rant a little.I just feel like not only is the amount he's consuming bad for his healhty but it's distancing us.He's happy as long as I am not 'on his case' and he is getting sex.He doesnt give a shit about any other details really...I do.Don't know what else to say...

Oh wow Holi that's alot to digest, I just couldn't do it. DF worked night for years so he used to stay awake on his nights off or come up to bed briefly and then go back down. When he switched over to days, he turned into an insomniac and never slept in bed then either. It's when he got this manager position and off his meds we were able to change his routine and he sleeps all night without waking up once. I got worried this passed week, he slept on the couch 2 times but it was b/c he was keeping himself up coughing and/or me hogging the bed, I turn my Snoogle pillow so we can cuddle and it takes up my side of the bed and the moving me wanders onto his side. Normally my snoogle is in the middle and doesn't move so he has plenty of room.

Anyways DF doesn't drink, but I think with my mom, she threatened me with a knife once and I went to stay with my aunt and uncle and would only go back if she stopped drinking, well she stopped for a month and went right back at it...then this January she hadn't had a drink the entire 3-4 days we were there and I think she was going thru withdrawals and that's why we had a fight. She drank heavily and spent all her money on beer after that.

Holi, honestly I couldn't do it, it took so long to change DF for the better in other ways...which took 9 years, LOL!! (he only drinks on special occassions though since he knows my past, so I can't relate on a drinking hubby, only my mom). If I've been alone for a few nights and he has plans to do something I let him know that I want him home. He has pretty much given up his friends for me b/c I have no friends and he's my only friend, so it's not fair if he gets to go out all the time. He did invite his one friend over 2 weeks ago for a fire so that was nice, his gf had a 1 month old and we got to chat. I told him that he wanted this family soooo badly he has to take responsibility, same as waking up in the morning. Mind you we both work full time jobs, so it's only fair...

Sorry if I'm not much help, wish we lived nearby hun!!!

holi,
i am so sorry to bug you bitchin about stupid stuff when you are upset too you didn't tell me!! i am so sorry! maybe we can get on msn soon and talk! i am sorry i don't know what to say im here if you wanna talk!