arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh !!!

May I suggest moving his bedtime routine and bedtime up by half an hour? It may be that he is over tired, and needs to go down just a bit earlier, so he doesn't become grumpy.

Here is what my favorite sleep book suggests:


Slow down activity

Close physical contact
Gentle massage or mild stretching
Cuddle up with the child in a chair
Nestle or snuggle in bed
Quiet voices
Imagine a fun event
Tell a story, talk about your family
Read a book
Sing or hum a song
Chat about the day
Say goodnight to everyone and everything in the room
Play a favorite tape, maybe grandparents singing or saying goodnight, sounds of nature

Comfortable Room
Photos of family and pets
Favorite Stuffed animals or dolls
Night Light or flashlight
Dream catcher or guardian angel for protection

Four year olds might be helped to sleep better if you try the following:
Make a schedule and post it in his room: Time for bath, time for sleep routine, lights off. (Regularity helps but the times might include a range because not all days are the same).
Try to engage or enlist cooperation by doing something together such as singing, reading out loud, or doing artwork.

Here is an example of how to gradually reduce reinforcement using not a cold turkey strategy, but a fade strategy. Sometimes it works better if the father takes over, since child might be more likely to act up for mum

1) Father reads story to child in bed for 15 minutes. 2) Father reads newspaper in child's bedroom until child falls asleep; 3) child is placed back in bed with minimal interaction; and 4) father gradually withdrawals from bedroom before child is asleep.

Another example: (1) parents alternate, but respond to child; (2) parent gives no drinks but provides holding and comforting until crying stops; (3) parent only sits by the bedside until child is asleep; (4) parent provides less physical contact at bedtime.

At every stage of reduction of parental attention, expect the problem to get worse before improvement begins. That's because the child will put forth extra effort to cling to the old style.

Hope this helps you hun

Maybe your should take a step back and let Jon deal with getting him back into bed for a few days until you can get your frustration level lowered.

We have some very difficult times with our older children who are adopted. I know rationally at some level it is due to developmental delays based on the things they went thru in the past, but dang I get so frustrated. I find myself sounding like a broken record of someone I don't like very much. At that point my husband steps in and takes over from a totally new calm approach for a few days. And sometimes he reached the explosion level and I step in and take over for him.

Thank god we can tag team them because I don't think either one of us could face it alone!

Hi Helen! Just wondering if anything is improving for you at Ryan's bedtime???

All of the above and I will tell you what they do on supernanny when kids keep getting out of bed!

First time you take him by the hand and say "time for bed darling" NOTHING else no eye contact. and lead him back to bed.

Second time you do the same excepy say "Bedtime Darling"

Third time and beyond,No speaking,just lead him back to bed,worked great with my little man when he went through this phase.Also with the extra half hour bedtime and strict :Bath,bed,story,sleep routine. Just my opnion ,I got it off supernanny and its the only part of my day where he's an angel!

Oh good!Seems like u got it sorted!