What to do with an 11 year old.............

be thankful most of you have years to go before you get to deal with older kid stuff. Not that this is 'normal' older kid stuff. I have no idea what to do here.

11 year old adopted son has a fascination with guns and knives and stuff. Saturday he was off playing all day. Apparantly he went to GIJOE jr's house about 4 blocks away, and brough GIJOE jr's air soft gun back to our neighbors house where he pointed it at 12 homeschooled neighbor's face, who did not have any of the protective gear on or anything. he claims he took GIJOE jr's gun back to him later.

Of course my son is in full denial mode, and the only details we have are via the 12 year old sister's gossip express -- which may or may not be factual. And of course she spilled all of this tonight too late to deal with it after she lied to me and crashed the homeschooled neighbors' superbowl party. I am so sick of being lied to all the time!!!

Anyways I plan to talk to homeschool mom and her son tomorrow and make sure that is what happened. After that I have no clue how to proceed. I just have no words to say that willl make the boy comprehend the seriousness of what he does. He just doesnt get it. It is like there is a disconnect in his brain, consequences never seem to affect him -- he will turn around and do the same thing 10 more times..... I am ready to ground his ass until kingdom comes (or he turns 18) just so I don't have to deal with any more of these little incidents.

I tried to talk to GIJOE jrs mom a few months ago, when my son stold FOUR pocket knives from GIJOE jr and took them to another friend's house to show them off. GIJOE jr's mom was no help at all. She pretty much had a boys will be boys, no blood no foul, oh it's ok attitude, so I pretty much doubt she will care much about the airsoft gun either.

I never would have dreamed of doing half the stuff these kids do, not to mention the lying and general disrespect we get on a regular basis. I am just about at the point where I am ready to throw my hands up and give up -- I dont want to be responsible for the actions of a kid I cannot control who has no sense of consequences. One of these days I am afraid he is actually going to hurt someone.

Any thoughts? Ideas?

Hey Sweety,I am sorry you are having a hard time.I do have some thoughts ,they may or may not be helpful.I would feel based on friends kids and reading that trying to seperate him from weapons if you are thinking of doing that,is probably only going to make it worse,I feel very strongly that the more you ban a kid from something,be it sex,drugs,alcohol or whatever taboo thing thay be interested in,they become more into it and more depserate to get,I know of several 'preachers daughters' who once they turned 18 and left for college partied and whored it up girls gone wild style.I also have several childhood friends who grew up in very conservative families who didn't discuss,let alone have any alcohol/drugs around.once they left home,they became drugs addicts,well 2 did anyway.I am not trying to scare you,nor am I suggesting you allow this to continue.I do have another idea though,perhaps you could enroll him in a 'shooting class' at a local range.They are VERY big on learning about safety and respect and will not tollerate any horse play from him.A dear friends of mine (who is actually a member of this forum) does not allow her step son toys,but in the back yard ONLY under supervision of his father,he is allowed to practice shoot cans on a fence.I believe this is more than enough to satisfy the sense of curiosity and 'the fobidden' which seems to drive kids more than ever.SO of course by all means,reprimand.But then I would suggest 'hey,if you're really into this shooting,I will let you (based on good behaviour/grades/no lying etc...( that you are allowed to go to the shooting range and have some lessons,either taregts or clay pigeons.I think it might be very good for channeling teen/preteen' angst and frustration too.Or perhaps some other martial art as well.I hope perhaps this gives you some thoughts on tactics.One thing I know is.Yelling,acusing and punishment alone probably won't do much good at all in helping this matter go away.At the very least if the child can be taught to use something safely the chances of this happening again are much smaller.Also you could use this as a bargaining chip as I said for good behaviour.Let us know how you go and good luck.

Thanks Angel. Bargaining chips absolutely do not work with these two. They will sabataoge themseleves so they never ever get the reward. Conversely, praise also does not work. They do not want to please us, so every time we try to paise or encourage them for doing a good job that also sets up failure from there on in. They have recently learned that with their IEPs they cannot be failed in school, so neither one is putting any effort into school and are failing most of their subjects, even though both are fairly smart. We see their grades on the weekly reports, but when official report cards come out they are all replaced with NI (needs improvement).

We thought about karate, but they are both stuck emotionally as 4 or 5 year olds, and when they get angry they lose control and don't even remember all the things they say and do later. I am too afraid that, even though karate if respect and restraint oriented he will use it to hurt someone in a fit of anger.

Drugs and alcohol are another thing all together. We already know that because of their genetics they are predisposed to becoming addicts. And I think their personalities support that too. I have no illusions anymore, when they turn 18 they will both hit the door running. I just hope they survive the real world long enough to appreciate what they left behind. We have come to the conclusion that all we can do is offer them a different life, they still have to want it for themselves.

It sounds hard,I can't imagine what it's like to try and raise people who are already so upset and distrubed,I guess just love them and guide them as much as you can and then try a new thing here n there if there's no harm.I am sorry rewards do not seem to work.I am so sure there is something that could help them.I have many suggestions ( I sent a couple in a PM) but it's down to you to try them and down to them like you said to want it,but I don't believe that fundamentally children seek unhappiness,they probably just arne't sure what's going on in their minds and subconsiously a lot may be influencing them too,just my guess,sorry if I am starting the obvious or what you laready know.All I can say is we are here to listen I hope some of the other ladies has some better advice than I,maybe Tiff has a better idea,she is so great at rationalising and suggesting things.Either way we can't be in your shoes sorry I don't live closer I would give you a hug and wwe could have a glass of wine!I wish you luck hun! xx

oh wow.....
This IS a hard situation and I am really sorry you and your husband are going through it. Your children don't realize how blessed they are to have you two as parents. You are a good mom to keep trying even though you have days when you want to throw in the towel.

I don't have ANY experience with this but I know they are in regular therapy and you mentioned that you can't enroll them a sport due to the emotional circumstances but what about something less physical like art therapy? Maybe that would be a good outlet or a sport with little bodily contact like swimming, horseback riding, even golf?

As far as your neighbor goes - I think it sucks that she wasn't more supportive to you. I am in a mommy group with children all the same age as Owen and we have really tried to rally around each and be supportive. We have also tried to stick to establish some discipline guidelines so that we are all on the same page and we talk to each other if we see bullying behavior etc.....

but guns and knives are a whole different problem...... I really feel for you, hon.

We tried alot of extracurricular activites when they were younger. The last few years, however, Kirk has attached the condition to participation in fun things with having passing grades in school. Nothing great, just passing. My son only did that one semester, and before we could get him enrolled in something he went seriously off the deep end. He is only now starting to get things balanced again, but still failing grades.

It is that self sabatauging thing again...............

HaHa -side story. My daughter insists she has proof I lie to her because when they were like 7 and 8 we went to Orlando for a trade show and were going to take them to Disneyworld. I got exasperating with the way she was acting, and told her if she didnt shape up she was NOT going to Disneyworld the next day. She did NOT shape up, and Kirk made me take her to Disneyworld because he didn't want her (or me) to miss the experience. So because I didn't punish her and sty away from Disneyworld with her I lie. Sigh.

have you tried the whole grounding till kingdom come approach?
I was not a bad kid but my parents did that to me in the 9th grade for bad grades. I was grounded from Jan till school got out and ended making straight A's from Jan - May!!!! : )
After that I was never a straight A student but I made all A's and B's until I graduated from college! lol!!!!
My parent's were VERY strict. For instance, once I missed my curfew.... I was told to be home at 10pm. I got home at 10:02 and I was grounded for two weekends.... for every minute I was late it was a weekend I could not go out. I only missed curfew one other time and it was because I had been in a minor fendor bender.

actually I have. His brain is just not wired like ours. He spent alot of the summer grounded. Every time he was let go, usually within half an hour he did something flagrant to get booted saight back into grounded. Often the very same thing that got him grounded the first time.

He wailed and cried and screamed ''I deserve to play'' over and over and over and over and over and over for hours. Then he started taking off an disappearing, hiding from us in the neighborhood when he knew we were looking for him. We even called the police one of the first times when he was gone almost 6 hours well after dark. Send him to put the recyleables in the bin and Boom he would disappear.

He also decided to break out of his room to go play. He ruined both his regular window screen and the sun screen cutting an escape hole. He scratched up his window also trying to cut a hole (opening the window and removing the screens was not dramatic enough apparantly). Part of this also was he completely cut apart his wooden blinds between every single slat because they were in the way of his trying to cut escape holes.

I just don't know how to describe it. On one hand they are 11 and 12 year olds who want to be treated as such. On the other hand they reason and have the cognitive skills of about a four year old (except the four year olds have a concept of consequences and want their parents to be proud of them).

Sorry to be such a downer, this is just what we face with these two.........

I've said it before but I am so, so, so sorry you guys are going through this. I wish I had some great advice for you but unfortunately I don't. I know he's in therapy but maybe it's time to look for a new therapist? Are you and your DH seeking therapy on how to help the kids? Being a parent to a well adjusted child is hard enough - I can't imagine how hard this has been for you. I know you were scared and mad all at the same time we he disappeared. Do you know where he was or what he was doing all that time?

Oh dear,it just sounds typical attention seeking because they are unhappy,it is so sad especially as it's not anything you and your hubby caused,it sounds like there's some deeply imprinted anger/sadness.Have you tried just sitting them down and saying 'why are you so unhappy,do you know why you keep doing thins you KNOW will get you into trouble?things could be so nice,life could ba happy,it doesnt have to be fights,and being grounded all the time?' I know it sounds obvious but sometimes some probing can unearth some telling answers which then in turn lead to a sollution,or at least some understadning,I did this with a couple of my friends teenage daughters.Of course they give you the moody 'I don't want to talk to you'.I was the 'role model' and they looked up (or across to me) at the time.I was able to do some digging and find out what the real problem was which in turn I was able to communicate to the mother who then was able to facilitate a gentle chat which eased the 'current' problem>Is there somoene like that in your kids life who they idolise,look up to?hero worhsip maybe a babysitter or an older (but not much older) family member...? How about therapy? I personally think the vaule of talk therapy is limmited depending on the individual and how much time/money you have to spend on the problem...I still really think that some kind of class like a martial art may help with the anger.They are very big on repeating 'only for self defense' and self discipline.It's actually proven to be very efective in 'troubled children' with behavioural/anger problems,It's more than just 'fighting skills' .My father was an Aikido teacher for a long time which is why I say this.A punch bag in the garage may also save you some broken blinds/windows.Kids LOVE to kit/break thins,and if the really allowed yourself to,you would see it's very theraputic.If you could go to the dollar store and buy some cheap plates,and keep them for moments when theres been some tension in the family and then say 'look,you guys are angry,come with me' then take them outside and have a plate smashing time together,as long as it gets swept up,It may sound crazy but it feels SO good.And healhty anger is very normal and finding ways for kids to 'let it out' that arent harmful to others or your house is helpful.My son and I sometimes have 'pillow beating sessions' there hasnt been one for a long time,but when he gets very angry with something,he is allowed to beat on the pillow and it helps him calm down quicker Anyway,sorry to keep coming at you with crazy stuff,but it's stuff that has worked for me or people I know. Hugs again! xx

hey hun i didnt read all post just first and second but my input i was that child that no one got through too i was hands down a little bastard of a child. I like idear she had of putting what they good at or intrested in like shooting range ect i mean i did some thinking back on it now real dangerous things that im not proud of.

me and friends would go to construction sites play "tag" jumping on the building to a point a boy sliped n split his head open but we went back next day to play all over again.
I stole over 3,000 worth of stuff in space of 2 weeks (i was 11) my mum would ground me yell at me ect i still went back and did it but i grew out of it but took a family problem to do so where i ended up taking on a lot of responsibility so maybe try taking his stuff away making him earn it back by working doing jobs around the house maybe paper round? ( i dont know age in this country) meal times snack times seems harsh but worked on me make him earn things insted of oh ur grounded from this item yelling at a child only works for so long before they become empty threats im my opinion ppl don't want there kids grow up to fast but sometimes you need to instill that responsibility early if he stole it items from somebody ealse make him work for them for a set amount of time doing stuff for them if the person dont want him working it off take him to a house to somebody who needs help make him do jobs for them made me a better person may just work for you